On Episode 3, longtime Hollywood producer Janet Yang (Joy Luck Club, Over the Moon, co founder of Gold House) joins us to share her thoughts on the future of Asian Americans in Hollywood, Shang Chi, and her unique experience bringing Chinese stories to the USA.
(01:07) Sean gives a brief history of Asian Americans in Hollywood. (From Sessue Hayakawa to Shang Chi)
(06:26) Siyuan shares China's reaction to Crazy Rich Asians.
(11:39) Siyuan shares China's sentiment on Shang-Chi
(15:59) Sean hosts a trivia round on Asian Americans in film
(21:58) Janet Yang joins the conversation
(25:28) Lucia asks Janet: Asian Americans have gained significant ground in Hollywood over the last few years, but there is still room to improve. Where do we go from here?
(32:25) Janet shares what type of stories she would like to see Asian Americans embody in the future
(35:50) Janet talks to Siyuan about her experience producing the Netflix animated movie Over the Moon.
(38:00) Janet shares her perspective on how co-producing movies with China has changed over the years, and why its becoming more difficult.
(45:27) Lucia asks Janet what works and doesn't work with mixing Chinese and American cast in a movie
(52:05) Janet ends the pod by providing some advice for young Asian Americans looking to break into Hollywood
NOTES
Check out Janet Yang's work at her website
Watch Over the Moon on Netflix
Follow us on IG: @bundtobrooklyn
Follow us on Twitter: @bundtobrooklyn
Questions? Requests? E-mail us @ b2b@1990institute.org
Learn more about the 1990 Institute
(This is an automatically generated transcript)
[00:00:00] Lucia: Hi all we are listening to been to Brooklyn, a podcast sponsored by the 1990 Institute. I'm your host, Alicia Lou and my cohost Sam mom.
[00:00:28] Siyuan: Hi guys.
[00:00:31] Lucia: So on today's episode, we want to talk about the future of media and entertainment for Asian Americans. Maybe you've recently watched Shang Chi and you're thinking, well, is this the big break for Asian Americans in entertainment? And how will China sort of play a role in a part in Hollywood, especially with all these Chinese actors in that movie.
Well on today's pod, we chat with Janet Yang about her experience bridging Hollywood and Chinese entertainment companies. And we also discussed the current and future landscape for Asian Americans in media. But first we want to invite our producer, Sean new, to give a little bit of background on the history of Asian-Americans and media.
Welcome, Sean.
[00:01:19] Sean: Thanks guys, happy to be here. and yes, this is a definitely a topic that I'm very passionate about.
[00:01:25] Lucia: John, before you dive in, do you want to . Give maybe why it's a important part of your backup?
[00:01:32] Sean: Oh, well, yeah, I felt so passionately about it, that I started a podcast myself about, this topic, basically celebrating Asian American films. It's called the electric image express.
we just go over and,
, talk about what we love to be. A lot of different Asian American films.
[00:01:49] Lucia: And you also write screenplays
[00:01:51] Sean: Yeah. I also ride, yeah.
[00:01:53] Lucia: in the editor.
[00:01:53] Sean: Yeah, I've ruined some screenplays. I've short shot, a couple of short films. And, uh, it's definitely something that I'm trying to get into more. So I appreciate you getting that out of me, maybe HSA,
and, um, I think it's important for Asian Americans to get involved both, you know, in front of the screen, as well as like in the creative development But.
[00:02:13] Lucia: this conversation is right up your alley.
[00:02:17] Sean: Yeah. Yeah. You can say that. You can say that. And I, I think just for me, I just remember watching a lot of movies growing up and just being like, okay. People that look like me. Pretty much emasculator nerds. I don't think I didn't need the masculine back then or like just like Kung Fu masters.
Right. And so when I dug into the subject a little bit more
when I was kind of creating this podcast, I realized we were actually here from the start, like right in the beginning of film back when silent films were thing. , there was a sway higher co-op and Anna May Wong, or two of the, kind of very prominent actors in Hollywood and Seth sway.
I hope I pronounce that name correctly was kind of one of the.
sex symbols in Hollywood
in like 19 10, 19 20. So shout out to him. He, you know, really buck the trend there. And Anna May Wong
actually was the first kind of Chinese American actress to gain international recognition for both her fashion and her acting.
Um, so Asian Americans have been there from the start. But along the way, there was a lot of, a lot of struggles, a lot of obstacles when a lot of,
Hollywood would just cast white actors
in kind of yellow face roles, basically pretending to be agents. Right? So
examples are like she Rooney in breakfast at Tiffany's.
It's a really famous one. And even today, uh, in the recent few years, we've had to fight whitewashing where people like Scarlett Johannson played a.
, a character that is written to be Japanese in ghost in the shell and Tilda, Swinton replaced an Asian monk in Dr. Strange. So it's definitely still a work in progress.
And. Us as a society are much more aware of it, but,
, there's still challenges, right. But, um, going back a little bit to like the nineties joy luck club was one of the kind of most important
prominent films that featured Asian Americans It was the first Asian American cast, an Asian American story in, in 30 years.
And, uh, excited to talk to Janet Yang who helped produce that movie, later on the podcast.
other notable milestones,
, Bruce Lee, of course, I think a lot of us know him, the seventies. He had to go back to Hong Kong before coming back to Hollywood, after he made a name there, became the first non-white person to invest director for Brokeback mountain 2006.
and from the nineties onward, we had some great movies like the namesake, Harold and Kumar, better luck tomorrow, saving face with lawn, but they're few and far between. but luckily. I think recently around 2017, 2018, we saw a pretty strong growth in stories. Right. And a lot of people attribute that to crazy rich Asians because while you can kind of debate how good the movie was, it definitely made me.
It made $240 million off of a $30 million budget. So it showed producers like, Hey, you can make money with casting Asian leads about an Asian story
and gold house, especially their gold open. movement, which organizes people to go see these movies, um, has also played a significant part in kind of generating demand and helping get people in seats to watch a lot of these Asian American movies.
so we're, we're in a better state than we were 10 years ago
minority and sound and metal, both nominated for best picture last year. And they had two Asian-American leads who are nominated for best actor. But, uh, there's still a long way to go. So, that's kind of a brief synopsis of where we're at and excited to hear our conversation with Janet later on.
[00:05:59] Lucia: Yeah, totally.
I think what you mentioned about crazy rich Asians, And gold open becoming a movement.
I think hearing the story behind the gold open movement was really surprising and, uh, kind of amazing. Like they took a page from
African-Americans basically bought out theaters
and supported people to go watch the film.
[00:06:22] Sean: Yeah. And I, if you search gold open, you're going to still see like a website of all the movies that are being supported, right? Yeah.
[00:06:28] Lucia: Cool. So, um, So again, I guess like where,
, we have such a different view of entertainment and movies here in the U S versus in China.
, what was your impression of crazy rich Asians, which really kind of, I guess, like became the darling for Asian American films here in the United.
[00:06:50] Siyuan: Yeah. So when crazy rich, Asian premium, I was still in Atlanta. I already spent a few years in us already. So when the film was released, I got very excited and thought we should all go out, surveyed it. And I joined some of my friends and went, just send emergency part of the film. Uh, I think I even went twice.
Seeing some people in the social media called people to buy the tickets as a way to show support. I think the film has a great story and it's pretty well-made
I can pretty relate with the film.
However, my reaction to quizzes Asians might be a little different. My friends
in China who may not have similar international experience as me. And I did ask a couple of my friends at that time
when the film was released in China, on their reactions. And I think the, the most popular comments I got was
they are not Chinese enough.
They are only. Telling an Asian American story and it has nothing to do with Chinese in China.
so I guess they are not too impressed with it, but I think it's a great success for Asian American history in the U S.
[00:08:01] Lucia: Yeah. It's interesting that you mentioned people in China were like, oh, well this is an Asian American story. It has nothing to do with me. And all the Asian-Americans are like, this is a very Chinese, or like, it's not necessarily fully Chinese, but like, because it said in Singapore, but they're like, oh, this is, you know, I can't necessarily relate a hundred percent with this either because there's too many.
, Singaporean or like Chinese elements to it. And so they're like, oh, it's like not Asian American enough. And a lot of Asian Americans complain because it's set in Singapore as opposed to, you know, telling a full Asian-American story. So it's, it's funny because this film is kind of suffering from what a lot of Asian Americans suffer from, which is like, you know, when they're in China, they're not Chinese enough.
And then when they're in America, they're not American. Right.
[00:08:52] Siyuan: Yeah, that's, that's really interesting.
Yeah. Yeah. I also want to share a bit more about my early memories of Asian-American films. So I think it all started was the show fresh off the boat, I think as the first U S TV network show with the Asian Americans. Since my toes. Oh, American goes in the nineties.
It was actually the first Asian American show I watch. Uh, I remember back in til the 16 shortly after I arrived in LA for grad school. One day I saw a Facebook post about it and I was like
interesting. Maybe I should watch it as well. As I was somewhat
fresh off the boat as well. But at that time
I had no idea at what the term Asian American or Chinese
American mean. I thought they just referred to all Asians or Chinese who happened to be America that moment. Like, I didn't have a lot of prior knowledge. Asian American history, but I
do think the show does a great job in
deconstructing the complexities of Asian American experience. And it was like, Asian-American
one-on-one for me.
[00:09:57] Lucia: That's funny.
and
I
agree with you. Like, I
feel like it's a, there's all these
different shades of being Asian American
and yeah. It's It's
odd because
, people would kind of refer to people who are like fresh off the boat fobs or like Fabi as like a lot of
Asian-Americans don't want to associate themselves
with quote-unquote fobs because they're like too close to.
Their mother culture, or they've had a
really bad experience with somebody in the past. And so they don't want it to, they didn't want to associate themselves with people who weren't quote unquote
assimilated into us culture. And so
I think the point that you brought up is interesting.
[00:10:42] Siyuan: Yeah, like looking back, I feel they always has been a huge
disconnection between Asian Americans and Chinese Webbies in China, which might explain the lack of understanding between those two groups. Like, first of all, there was not much information related to Chinese America that are accessible in China to begin with like the American shows I grew up with such as friends and two broke girls are all white cast and the only way.
Act
character at the two broke girls, for example, is a stereotypical Asian
and shot awkward. And will colleague
yeah. Yeah. So I got
this impression that
so from the white people's, those Asian might not be that normal. That was my impression back day while I was a child. And also, I don't remember
any mentioning of Chinese American, uh, the audio program VOA, which was one of the most popular English learning tours for my generation who grew up during the nineties.
So I came to the us,
It tends to knowledge
of Asian Americans.
so for Sean, she, there's not a release. In China yet. I think China's biggest concern about the movie is Sean CI's father. So in the comic books, Sean she's father is full Manchu who has been widely seen as being racist and an embodiment of the yellow per stereotype. Even the CEO of marvels.
I think Kevin FYGI. How to interview was a Chinese film critic the other day, and saying a full Manchu is not going to involve in the film in any capacity.
but Chinese social media, uh, steel, very recent for of this history.
And I did ask a couple of my friends, like whenever. Want to see the film John Xi and the answers I've got, unfortunately was no, like some of my friends comment, uh, like why they pick actors and extras such as Leo and Aquafina, who according to them
[00:12:52] Siyuan: was mainly Hollywood status to appear to Western audience.
So they think. Not catering to Chinese market is so they don't want to see it, which is very different from a lot of Asian Americans in the U S.
[00:13:08] Lucia: Why do you feel like, uh, or did you ask them why they felt like Sima Lou and Aquafina represented Americans' tastes rather than.
[00:13:18] Siyuan: Yeah. One friend said Simon, who has like very small ice and Aquafina. Like it's not according to Chinese traditional asset standard, which is a wish, not really refer to that. But according to Chinese traditional setting, it's not like a good looking at you. But I, I do think they both very cool and I liked both of them, but, uh, fortunately the, uh, some of the reactions I got
from social media and friends.
[00:13:51] Lucia: Yeah. I mean, that's interesting. Cause like, you know how a lot of comedians in China, they're not very good looking either,
[00:13:57] Siyuan: Yeah,
[00:13:58] Lucia: but like people don't really comment on
that.
[00:14:00] Siyuan: yeah, no, I mean, there's a famous female
comedian called young Lee.
[00:14:06] Lucia: Is she the
pump home that like
[00:14:08] Siyuan: I think that was Squashy
[00:14:10] Lucia: Oh,
okay. I'm getting confused.
[00:14:12] Siyuan: yeah, I think they still got chose online.
Like target targeted them saying like, they're not pretty enough. They always like chose everywhere.
[00:14:21] Lucia: Yeah.
that makes sense.
So are you interested in watching
chinchy
[00:14:26] Siyuan: I am. I'm very interested and I am waiting for Chinese real estate, which I'm not sure if, if it's going to happen on that.
yeah. Lucia, are you interested in watching?
like how y'all friends around you feel about it?
[00:14:40] Lucia: I haven't really chatted too much with my friends about change. I mean, I think the Asian-American circles are super proud of having
a movie like Shane, Kai. They're super excited. A lot of people went to the premiere.
I know a lot of
folks who know SEMA, so,
, they're really excited for him
personally.
I'm a huge Tony long fan. I grew up watching him and so. So I,
, I'm excited to watch the film. Like I personally
you know, I'm excited for, to see Tony long
in the, in the film.
I think I'll have mixed feelings about
it depending on how it sort of goes. So I'm just going to withhold my judgment until I actually see it.
[00:15:23] Siyuan: cool.
[00:15:26] Sean: , I am not a big
Marvel guy, but,
[00:15:29] Lucia: What we can't be friends anymore.
[00:15:32] Sean: you know, I read all the comics back when I was young. And I'm just that kind of nerd. That's like, eh, comics are better. So I'll, we'll, we'll, we'll have a long conversation about this and Disney and how I feel about Disney. but um, no, I mean, like Marvel is fine. like, they do a lot of good stuff, like, and I appreciate also that they, they have opportunities to have different types of people, but anyways, I'll watch it. I'll watch the movie
just support.
[00:15:56] Lucia: Yeah, I know that we
need to transition. I don't know Sean, how much
time we need to do for your fun activity that you have planned.
[00:16:07] Sean: well that just wants it to do a little bit of a fun trivia just to get a sense more about
Asian American films.
so. I don't know if you guys want to, I guess you also want to compete, right. So I'll just name the question. I'll give the three, answers and then you guys can pick, uh, so we'll just start out first with
what game is core?
The plot of both joy luck club and crazy rich Asians.
Nice. You got.
[00:16:35] Siyuan: No.
[00:16:36] Sean: Off to a great start. Both of you guys got that one
and you guys said that you wouldn't do well. Number
two, which other famous Asian star has a minor role in enter the dragon? One of Bruce Lee's most iconic movies.
Jackie Chan, Lucy Liu, or Donnie yen.
[00:16:56] Lucia: I have no idea. I think it's Jackie Chan.
[00:16:59] Siyuan: I thought Stony yen.
[00:17:00] Sean: Is that your final answer? Both of you.
[00:17:02] Siyuan: Yeah.
[00:17:03] Sean: Well, Lucia gets that one, right. For Jackie Chan Donny Yan was not in that. Yeah. Jackie Chan has like a bit part where when they're down in the cave is fighting and he gets hit by Bruce Lee.
[00:17:14] Lucia: I only guessed that because I think Donnie became more famous after Jackie Chan. So he's a bit younger.
[00:17:20] Siyuan: so Jackie Chan was already kind of famous at that time or? No.
[00:17:25] Sean: No, he wasn't that famous. He was just like a
extra.
[00:17:28] Lucia: He just made a camera.
[00:17:29] Siyuan: Okay.
[00:17:30] Sean: He's like a stunt double. Okay. number
three.
which movie was not directed by an Asian
woman, the farewell joy luck club or nomad
land,
[00:17:42] Siyuan: Sorry.
[00:17:43] Lucia: Uh, joy luck club.
[00:17:45] Siyuan: What's that question? I'm so
[00:17:46] Sean: which movie was not
directed by an Asian.
[00:17:49] Siyuan: Okay. Uh, no, my
Lantus struck by Chloe. Yeah. Joy.
[00:17:55] Sean: Okay. You guys both got that one. See, look at this. Doing
[00:17:59] Siyuan: Yeah.
[00:18:00] Sean: Okay. Number four. What did the crime movie
better
tomorrow and the comedy big sick
have in common number one based on true stories. Number two, they're both
set on the
west coast and number three, they're both directed by fast and the furious director.
Justin Lin.
[00:18:19] Siyuan: Okay.
[00:18:20] Sean: Okay. So your hand says
[00:18:21] Lucia: have no idea. Um,
[00:18:25] Siyuan: Yeah, just my guess.
[00:18:27] Lucia: uh, uh, the last one C.
[00:18:32] Sean: Unfortunately, you guys both got that wrong. Uh,
[00:18:35] Lucia: Uh,
[00:18:37] Sean: both based on true stories, better luck tomorrow is based on the murder
of this high school kid back in my hometown
orange county. So that's in California. The big sick is a personal
story
by the main actor, Kumail, Nanjiani, uh, about how he met his wife.
And it said in like, I think, I think it was Pittsburgh, but like the, you
know, the central
America. So it's not in the west coast.
and Justin Lin
directed buttock tomorrow, but he did not direct the big sick
[00:19:04] Lucia: Ah, it was like Justin Lin directed better luck tomorrow, but I have no idea about what the big,
[00:19:10] Siyuan: Yeah.
[00:19:11] Lucia: sense, actually.
[00:19:12] Sean: Yeah.
all right. Fifth one final one. Uh, so right now Lucia is in the lead, but
you know, it's, anyone's
[00:19:19] Lucia: Wow.
[00:19:19] Sean: game. If Suzanne wins this one, you'll be tied, which animated movie
that
stars
Asian-American leads is set in the futuristic city of sin, friends,
SoCo. big hero six
over the
moon or okay.
Lucia are you,
what are you waiting for? So you're in the answer first so that you can, yeah, I saw, I, I see what you're doing.
[00:19:43] Siyuan: wait.
[00:19:44] Lucia: big hero sakes.
I'm a huge fan. That's why it's, it's kind of unfair. We watched all the Disney shorts. It's not Disney shorts, but there's episodes of big heuristics. And I'm such a big nerd that I watched all of them and realized that they were kind of based off of Spider-Man.
[00:20:06] Sean: I mean, it's a great movie. It's a, it's a great example. I
think of
our white creators. If they do a
really good job researching things. Make a great movie about another
culture.
so yeah, that one is like, based
about this like bay area. That's like merge with Tokyo, but that's it Lucia, you win this
round of trivia.
we all
win.
We all win. Now that we know more
about Asian American movies. So
[00:20:32] Lucia: that was fun. We should do this world.
[00:20:34] Sean: yeah.
[00:20:35] Siyuan: So trivia more often.
[00:20:36] Lucia: Next up, we have Janet Yang. Uh, I am so excited
for us to speak with Janet Yang.
for those of you who don't know, Janet has her own production studio.
She's a co-founder of gold house. She's worked with,
greats like Steven Spielberg.
and she's the executive producer of joy luck club. Her recent, her most recent work is over the moon. So we talk with her about, uh, again, the future of
Asian Americans in media. before we begin the interview with Janet, just quick reminder
[00:21:15] Lucia Liu: You can follow us on Instagram and on Twitter at Bund to Brooklyn. That's B U N D to Brooklyn. You can also email us. Our email is b2b@nineteenninetyinstitute.org. B the letter B the number two, the letter b@nineteenninetyinstitute.org. You can also find that in the show notes, we'll include all of it and, uh, be sure to listen to us and subscribe to us on Spotify, apple, and all other major podcast networks.
[00:21:46] Lucia: and here's.
Jen, it's so glad to have you on the pod. How are you?
[00:22:09] Janet: I'm great. How are you? today?
[00:22:11] Lucia: Good. Well, so Janet, we're just really excited to chat with you today. Um, real quick for our audience on your background. So, you know, you have a, a BA from brown, you have an MBA from Columbia and you began your career running the first distribution company to market Chinese films to America.
You've brokered re-introduction of American cinema and Chinese marketplaces. You know, you've collaborated with. Amazing people like Steven Spielberg for the film empire of the sun. And you founded your own production company along with the premier Asian-American non-profit gold house. How does it feel to be amazing?
[00:22:51] Janet: That's making me blush. I don't know if I feel amazing because I'm always so aware of how much more work there is to be done. So I don't kind of rest on my laurels, but I appreciate what you're saying. And I feel very lucky that I was
in the right place at the right time for making change in
some cases. And it has been really interesting to see the explosion. I would call it explosion of Asian-American content now, because as I've said before, the
whatever it's 28 years or 29 years ago, when we made Joe luck club, we thought that it would inch things forward. There is really No.
palatable change at the time.
And then crazy rich Asians came out
and that was a true
hallmark of change. And, uh, and then shanky is about to come out and that's, we've just jumped to a whole other level. So it's been
Very gratifying. And it's taken a lot of people with a lot of passion and conviction to, to move the needle. But I do feel like we're in a place of No.
return.
Is that a correct expression? We're not going to go backwards. It's not a place of no return. We're not going to go
backwards. We're not going to go back to what it was. I think we're, we're here to stay. We have voices
that are being heard and
are authentic voices and sometimes. Negativity to get people to pay attention.
So what's happened in this year and a half of the pandemic with the rise of Asian, uh, Asian and hate crimes, I think has brought
our community to the attention of
mainstream America. And we are now part of the national conversation and that's. Has
never really happened much before. So it's been,
it's been a great time.
I mean, in the meantime, for me personally, and for so many other people, the distance that us and China now experience is, is a bit heartbreaking.
but at least it's been somewhat supplanted by this arising in Asian-American content. And so there's always good news bad.
[00:25:05] Lucia: Yeah, absolutely. Janet, I, I feel you. And we're going to talk a bit about, you know, us and China, uh, a little later in the podcast to sort of set the stage for our audience a bit. Right.
I think you've already talked through. So much of how far we've come, especially with like crazy rotations, bringing in
[00:25:25] Lucia: $240 million into the box office, showing executives and producers that they can make money by producing Asian American film and content that there is demand for it.
however, you know, we still have to your point, a lot of room to grow as I'm sure you're aware. There's this recent report that's called
the prevalence in portrayal of Asian and Pacific Islanders across 1300 popular films. And the study reveals that 44% of top grossing films in the past decade that had API leads or co-leads.
And
14% actually started the rock, right? As a, as a lead
40% didn't have a API representation at all.
so,
, I think you talked about
there's this, like,
, silver lining that there's a lot more scrutiny around Asian American content. There's a lot more desire. I think. Everywhere, you know, not just in media to invest in Asian-Americans and invest in diversity.
where do you feel like,
, we can sort of go and where do you feel like we're, we're sort of lacking.
[00:26:33] Lucia Liu: Hey guys, just want to clarify that. I said at 44% of top grossing films don't have Asian leads. What I meant was that 44 out of 1300 films did not have Asian leads, which means we actually have a long way to go. All right. Back to Janet.
[00:26:52] Janet: Hmm. Well, those are good questions.
back to the study that you just cited. 34% of the people who were able to cite someone they thought was Asian American cited, Jackie Chan. And then the
second most cited person was Bruce Lee, who was legitimately Chinese American. But
um, it is horrifying sometimes to take a cold look at
how othered we still are in the eyes of so many.
all we can do is try to make the changes that we are
able to. And I do sometimes feel like I'm in such a bubble that I get very optimistic, like, oh my God, we're really things are really moving forward because in my world, So many actors, writers, directors who are Asian, Asian American of Asian descent are very busy.
They're working. They're in writers' rooms. They're making films, they're directing, they're performing,
, we've seen, um, Sandra, oh, is in this new show, the chair and a dilemmas about to direct her movie with three Asian leads, female Asian leads. I have projects that are in the world. Um, many people, Randall park, and there's that show that to two women, I'm very fond of
Sherry Cola and
Carolina and that show
good trouble where
they play lesbians, lesbian girlfriends.
so. I there's so much out there that sometimes I find it
hard to keep up with, you know, back in the day, decades ago, I would scour scour, scour
for anything.
Many of us did that. Is there a big role that an Asian had in a show or a movie, even if it wasn't an appealing role, at least it was something. And, and back then we really had a sense of conflict because sometimes the roles were demeaning. Or very stereotypical, but at least they were providing . Work and as showcased for, for Asian actors, you know?
So I really feel for those early trailblazers like James Hong or a woman is not to see Spieler quote, cause they were in lots of things, but usually in not very good roles. So the big difference today, I think
is number one. It was not even that long ago when Emma Stone or Scarlett Johannson or Tilda Swinton were playing Asian characters that was mere four years ago, maybe three, four years ago.
And that won't happen again. I
don't think there's, there was such an outcry about that
and it really
almost definitely affected the box office of those movies. So people are getting smarter. news is traveling faster. We are speaking up.
There are a lot of Asian journal.
I, I really experienced this way.
We protested the jokes against the Asians of the night, 2016 Oscars, where the three little kids coming out with their briefcases and, and a group of us complained and said, you realize how hurtful it is
to have that stereotype of the nerd rubbed in our face on, on,
you know, national TV. And then that's awful Sasha Baron Cohen joke, which also cut below the belt literally and figuratively about little yellow people with tiny dogs.
So.
because of that, I I've been now very, very involved in the academy and, Well, if there's a governor and sharing membership committee and diversifying membership, and we've seen in recent years, how first with the parasite when, and then last year was so many accolades to me, naughty and, and other include Joe winning.
So, so, so that's why. Remain optimistic because I've seen change happen right in front of my eyes. And sometimes in the most unlikely places, there was not an organization that was more white, more male, more often than the academy. And now, you know, when I sit in the
room with other governors, it's very diverse, more women than men, a lot of people of color.
So for an institution like that, you know, to see the battleship get turned around, So gratifying. And I do think we're now riding the wave of what's in the site Geist. and well, of course, as we achieve more, we're also more aware of the work that still needs to be done, but at least there's
a community.
And I feel the same thing about gold
house and there's a community of people. Someone can.
I have arrived in Los Angeles and then prepare demic of
course, you know, go to any number of
events, celebrating Asian,
, films or TV shows. And that's a great feeling
that there's, there's a real critical mass of us and that we do have a voice.
[00:31:23] Lucia: Absolutely well said, Janet, and I think the optimism is so promising and makes me very, very happy, especially for our community, because I think if we were to talk,
, five years ago, 10 years ago, it's it wouldn't have been this conversation. And I remember. My conversation with Adele Lim on my own personal podcast.
And she was talking the same thing where it's like, crazy rotation sort of opened the flood gates for demand for Asian American talent in front of the camera, behind the camera. Producing script writing, et cetera. And one of the things that she talked about was that there just wasn't enough Asian American talent to go around.
And so,
it's not just in the film industry, I'm seeing this with other industries as well, where
supplier diversity has become really prominent. Right. And really top of mind, Most fortune 500 companies. And so right now we have the situation where I think there's more demand than there is supply.
And so lots of times when you're sourcing or trying to find a story to produce
You know, sometimes the script or the pitch, isn't really up to par. So like, I guess I'm kind of curious from your perspective, like what stories are sort of missing from this environment?
Cause you know, I think with crazy rich Asians, like you saw bling empire house of hope. Like we don't necessarily need more of that, but we need more stories that showcase us as humans and doing many, many different things.
[00:32:54] Janet: Yes. So, uh, we discuss this all the time. When I say we cultural creators in the community and we're in a phase now where we just want to be normalized,
, not everyone is crazy rich and
not everyone knows how to suck a punch. Like, Bruce Lee, cause there are now a lot of martial arts shows on air.
So. That normalization process means that why aren't we being casseroles that aren't written for Asians? Number one, you know, it happens occasionally, but not that much. And also what about just a basic drama where people are not acting. Extreme in one way or another, but just people just want to watch us because we're interesting characters and we're not wearing the Asian-ness on our sleeve it's part and parcel of who we are, but it's not the most salient
fact about us. So there are a lot of moves in that direction. And I think it just takes time. I mean, in some ways we, a lot of this crazy rich Asians open up the door, obviously for romantic comedies previously, we were. We were just people who flew through the air, you know, like we could, um,
, kick anyone's butt, so new genres do need to be opened up and
, that means drama, maybe horror, maybe mystery, maybe thriller.
So many other genres are still available to us to tap into right. I for one
I'm hoping to do just that. Um, I was, it was wonderful actually to make over the moon because at least that was kind of normal, relatable person. You know, a girl in, in a town outside of Shanghai, even though you may not identify with being Chinese, but she just had a dream to build this rocket ship to the moon.
So
I appreciated that that film could get made and that people could fall in love with a Chinese girl. And, um, more, more stories of people that are just very relatable.
[00:34:54] Siyuan: Yeah, Jen, actually, I watched over the moon last fall away when it came out and then reelected
I think it's very visually stunning and emotionally resonant. I do think the film into praise, the Chinese classic legend of telling a way that is respectful in terms of authenticity, but also quite modern, vibrant and fun.
I heard the team. I went to the Watertown dentistry, where the story took place and stay there for quite long in order to get a sense of that place. But Tim put enormous effort on writing the Chinese scripts, not simply
translating lies from the English version in order to make it work for the Chinese audience.
Also, in addition, the team adjusted some jokes to refine the humor for Chinese audience. So I was wondering how successful you think over the moon was in the U S market as well as the Chinese market.
[00:35:46] Janet: Well, it was a lot more successful in the U S market.
there's so many things I can say about that movie for civil. I give so much. So much credit to the artistry of that movie and also the, the depth and soul of that movie to Glen Keane, the legendary animation director. Me when we first saw sketches of Fey or even the rabbit,
has so much
heart. Like you could tell that he really understands human emotion and every expression that he drew was was just so real and rich. And so that's one thing that we had going in our favor, not to
mention a beautiful script by Audrey Wells, but the other thing that is very, it's a good segue. If we want to talk about China's that this company pro studios was actually the later iteration of what was Oriental Dreamworks animation
don't fund BoomTown.
Which was started by Jeffrey Katzenberg who ran Dreamworks animation and, uh, Lee Ray gong,
or Shanghai media group. I think I can talk a little bit more about it
openly. Now at the time it was a little bit sensitive, but
, it was not that long ago that there was a period of about, I don't know, 6, 8, 10 years.
Where the United States and China were working very, very closely together on many levels to create some sort of, whether it be official co-production or some, some kind of collaboration, because there was this notion that, oh, the American film market is very large China film. Market's very large how wonderful it would be if we could find.
Products that could play in both places. And there's been many attempts
to achieve that. And
very few have been successful. I think one of the first big attempts was the great wall.
I made a small Indian movie called Shanghai calling, which did play in China, but it was, it was a smaller movie. And, and at least when it played the Shanghai film festival, people laughed.
It was kind of an experiment for me. I was like, is the sensibility the same? Will people laugh the same places? And I found that it was,
but then.
[00:37:50] Lucia: that movie by the way.
[00:37:51] Janet: Oh, I'm glad. Thank
you for those. I think
there's often a, an appreciation because it, it highlights and this is very much what we want to do. We want to reveal contemporary Shanghai,
, again, in a more realistic setting.
but
we was like Milan and then the fate of shakuhachi is still, is still undecided, but. It's been very difficult, even movies like crazy rich Asians that farewell did not play in China. So a lot of things have happened in recent years that are complicating factors. And again, while at one time I chair something called the U S Asia entertainment summit.
Which is through Asia society. And every year we would bring over a top director. Like we had Johnny Mo, we had ,
we had a shoot. Uh, she dong,
we had
so many, uh, functional gum. We had all the top records from Trinity who wanted to come over and talk to American companies. We also had a lot of, Yeah.
Chinese, uh, sponsors and, and film distributors and finances would come over and many American studio heads or, you know
personnel would come and there was so much activity and so much
discussion about
collaboration. A lot of Chinese money was funding slates at studios, almost every. Studio had some kind of funding source from China.
And
people were actively looking for projects that could potentially play in American China. And it was, it was a very, very rich time and that's really come to
more or less a close, I mean, there's a trickle of activity, but nothing like what it was in that robust period. And that's due to a lot of things, but on both sides of the Pacific, both in American China.
And it was very, very sad because that movie
over the moon was, was germinated at, at that Monkton, uh, the Oriental Dreamworks animation. And then
eventually it was sold to Comcast and they spun it off and they sold in. So the Chinese investors took over. But in that period when I was first pitched the story of, of trauma to, uh, it was exactly the
kind of thing they were looking for. It was a way to tap into Chinese culture, Chinese traditions, something that was very familiar to China, but try to. Take it to a level that would have international appeal. And that was always the
intention. And
they felt this movie satisfied that, but we never really got a chance to show it in a big way in China, like so many other movies for various reasons, they want to save the screen time for local Chinese movies.
if the government does not really support a project, then it's really hard to compete. I'm not sure what would have happened if it got a lot of smoke, but it opened up on national day,
, in China where there was so many other more national nationalistic movies
and local movies that they actively supported.
So I don't really know what, what the response would have been. Maybe it wouldn't have been strong. Maybe it would have been, it's very hard to
say, but it barely got a release and just like so many other
movies, which have Chinese content. So we, we don't know, we don't know.
And it, you know, I just find it unfortunate because there were a lot of good creative mindset.
We're trying to find subject matters and trying to combine the talents of both sides of Pacific to create something that was truly beautiful and appealing,
to different, to the two largest film audiences in the world. And I think those efforts have more or less come to a halt because it just seems too difficult.
And at this point in the China market, Local films are doing extremely well there. The quality
is getting better and better. the caliber is very high and, but the sensibility, the point of view
is very much geared to a Chinese audience. And so those films have a hard time traveling
outside of China. They're very,
um, they're very focused on
kind of a local
the localized markets. So.
So while the films are doing very well, economically, we're not discovering them
as much. You know, I try to seek them out and I've
seen some wonderful films trying to, but I
really have to work hard at seeking them out.
And sometimes they
play in, in theaters in Chinese neighborhoods, but they're really
not, you
know, widely seen
here and very
few films, a few American films are going over to China now. So this is like 180 degree change from what it was
say, just like 5, 6, 8 years ago.
[00:42:18] Siyuan: Yeah. like as you mentioned, the dynamic
between
us and China as a market, as consumers
and as political driver has changed so much in the past 20 years since
joy luck club
I was just wondering. What are some of the specific lessons you learn along the way in your journey that you use to apply to over the moon?
How do you feel
Asian American film and their creators are thinking about Chinese film? For example, let's look at Sean. Asian led superhero movie is seeing as potential Asia
America's black Panther.
Uh, so right now the movie
isn't out yet, and it doesn't have a release date in China, and there's some
fears that it will not break even in the Brock office without a Chinese market while Chinese seasoned seem to be not happy about the direction of the film.
[00:43:05] Siyuan: So just wondering your thoughts on this.
[00:43:08] Janet: I, uh, talked about shank T I,
think it is unfortunate. You know,
that's a movie just like with Mo Milan, that Disney, I think felt, oh, here's something that is Chinese ish. And
at the same time is likely to have a broad appeal, you know,
action, movie, whatnot.
I think Sean T is a very,
very, very good movie. And in my mind, there is nothing
offensive to the Chinese money, the original comic book. Yes. You know who man chew and the father figure, et cetera. I
could really see why
people took issue with that in China. But if there were to see the movie, I think they would be hard pressed to find things that they could get.
Very very angry or insulted by. I think it is one of the few movies I've seen where they tap into
Chinese cultural traditions in a very kind of commercial way, but in a way that is not, not offensive, it
didn't feel what we could say hokey. Like it
didn't feel didn't feel like, eh, you
[00:44:11] Lucia: Yeah, like cringe-worthy yeah,
[00:44:13] Janet: Yeah, cringey it
wasn't creed worthy.
And I think that was a great
achievement on their part. And I think in part
it's due to I think the director is extremely talented destined Daniel Crichton he's part Asian,
I think is they had a lot
of good
minds on the project. And then of course, incredible cast like Tony, Leon is
fantastic and
he's so popular and trying to Michelle Yeoh, and
[00:44:40] Lucia: fan of Tony long.
[00:44:41] Janet: Yes. I
mean, he's wonderful. And then I know there was some controversy about Symbaloo
but they should have the opportunity to see the movie and judge for
themselves. And I think Aquafina is sort of popular in China to some degree, you know, so maybe, and there's a couple
of, Newcomers that I think are
quite interesting as well.
So it's, I would feel very sad if the Chinese audience did not
get a chance to experience this film officially.
[00:45:08] Lucia: Mm.
[00:45:08] Janet: I think it's one that might make them very proud. I've gotten texts from people saying, oh, this is a game changer. And this changed my life,
to see us as superheroes. And I.
was so mentally prepared
to see us as we're heroes. So it
fulfilled my, my
expectations and beyond,
but for some people who didn't really even know what they're getting to, there were so shocked that this happened. So that's one part of your question. Uh, you talked a w can you remind me what the other parts? I feel like I touched on all of
[00:45:40] Lucia: Yeah, Janet, I feel like you touched on most of the questions earlier. I have a separate sort of
question for you, which is like the mixing of
Chinese actors and Asian American actors and films. So we've started seeing a lot more of. Right with, um, you've got the farewell, you've got crazy rich Asians.
with Shane, she like Tony long and then Milan with, crystal, Lou starring as Milan, right? Like, I guess like,
[00:46:07] Lucia: , How are you sort of seeing that and do you feel like more and more mixing of like Chinese actors in
American films and then maybe vice versa with like Matt Damon?
Right. And just having like different, I guess like actors and actresses, like imported across borders.
[00:46:26] Janet: So, Yeah. again, it's not that long
ago
when, um, was
it
Sony that decided to put likely being,
being in a big,
franchisable
movie. And I remember the
Chinese audience
reactions at the time was like, why did they
even bother? Cause it wasn't like great role in the end. It was
so obviously pandering to the Chinese market and
the same thing, you know,
with Matt Damon, the great
wall.
In each case, it's actually the other,
like, I think it was the Chinese that said we have to have a
big American movie star, you know, whether or not it seemed
appropriate. So they
needed it more. And then, And then, the American
company was the one that said we want. Cause sometimes they think as a shortcut
to that big actor in and then instantly there'll be
followers. So I think the American said, oh, we have, let's
get a big Chinese actress in, in was I can't even remember
the Spiderman. Exactly. One of those,
there
was a transformers, whatever there's
been several at any rate sort
of
awkward now, right?
To think that that was,
it was, it was such
a, a brusque and
obvious
pandering and it didn't necessarily fit. So it's like trying to put a round peg into a square hole. It's like, we're going to make this work,
you
[00:47:38] Lucia: Right. Exactly. Yeah. It's a very clear business decision that
you can see that the producers are like, oh, we're going to put
Lelia Fe here. She's going to be really good for the China
audience. And then we're going to plug goalie
here
for, you know?
Yeah.
[00:47:51] Janet: So I feel like these
attempts are not so blatant anymore. And actually people are getting a little bit more sophisticated and trying to find stories that really
work, which, which called for a ,
you know,
Okay. She, and I thought that was a good choice. I thought she, she performed well, but there were other issues obviously with that movie.
and then of course there were the, you know, it was that her, her way, blog post, and then,
the, the other issues, the St John thing, and, you know, and I really have a lot of empathy for people who are trying to make.
This so-called co-production model work or just not even, it doesn't even have to
be an official co-production, but just sort of some collaboration.
I mean, it's
really hard. It's
really, really hard.
And there's a lot of things that happen unexpectedly. But I think
to talk about chief for a minute, I know there
was even a controversy about symbol
and,
,
One of the issues is, and we've been hearing
this for decades is like the standards of beauty.
, we've heard the Chinese say so-and-so is not even pretty. Why is she such
a big actress? You know, I don't even want to name names cause I don't even want to repeat
this kind of thing.
and the Chinese standard of beauty is very different from the standard of beauty. And not to say
that they can't, they can't be overlap, but there, there is this mix of like, why is that person?
And maybe a little jealous, you know, maybe like we have so many better looking or better,
actors, whatever. And, and that just be speaks to me a different culture. Like the Chinese American culture is different from the Chinese culture. No question about it. I, I feel it all the time. I've spent a lot of time in China.
I rarely feel like I am pure
Chinese. I can get by. I speak. I can order. I have a lot of Chinese friends. I have, I have. Wonderful time in China, both personally and professionally, but I know I'm not like poodle
to, uh,
uh, I can get the word out. Right. It's so clear to me. Uh, not just because of language limitations, not because of this.
Like, because the whole mentality, like, I, I admire a lot of the way the Chinese think this is much more strategic, more complex. But I know I'm not that. And, you know, and, and yet China
has been a, a wonderful touchstone for me, and I
have
felt more empowered. A lot of
Chinese Americans in the industry
wanted to just be more white and kind of blend into the white world.
And because very early on, the whole reason I'm in this business is because of China. I always were trying out my sleep. Everybody knew I was that weird person. Flying back and forth to China and promoting Chinese films and bringing Gregory Peck to China. And like the people in
China remember me from when I showed movies, you know, studio, movies there. and, then, and here I was known as
that again, that person who, who,
who helped Steven Spielberg and China and China, China, China. Right? So it was never an issue. Like for me, it's not anything I hot ha hid was
something. Proud of, and I think
that's been a wonderful,
thing, and for others it's
been a slower process to discover and to really identify
with being Chinese American and, uh,
Great processing of something they can now be proud of. And now there is a
lot of Asian
pride and, that's fantastic. But to talk about this 20, 30 years ago was almost unheard
of.
[00:51:21] Lucia: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, one of the things that we actually talked about as a group before you joined the call was sort of this like Asian American identity. And
it was interesting because we kind of centered around the film, crazy rich Asians, cause like,
, certain people. in America, when they watched the film, they were like, oh, it's not really an Asian-American film because it was set in Singapore.
And there were all these cultural elements And yada yada yada. Right.
and then when it aired in theaters in China, people were like, oh, this is an Asian-American film. It's not really Chinese. , and that there in lies sort of what you talked about, which is like, it's really hard to cater to, different experiences and an.
Way. And a lot of times personally, like we find ourselves in the in-between as well, because you know, when we go back to China, we're not like fully Chinese, but like in the states, like, you know, we're told like, oh, what part of the orient are you from? Right. Like, so it's, um, it's interesting. and it's a, it's definitely a strange. to sort of navigate. So I guess like,
, moving forward in, in wrapping this conversation up with you, like,
, what advice do you sort of
have two younger Asian Americans who either want to get into film who wants to be in the entertainment or. the space who want to be behind the camera or in front of the camera,
whether or not they have Chinese to China, but like,
, what sort of vice do you have for them?
And
what can they sort of
do to either help build the bridge or, become successful in either market?
[00:52:55] Janet: Well, I say to everyone, the first thing is you have to really love what you're doing and almost not see any other possibilities, How many people now who are very accomplished in,
in entertainment, but they start
as lawyers or doctors because of pressure from their parents. And I can't tell you, there's countless stories of that.
And they discovered, no, I have to do this. Right. They gave up a lot
to do this. So you have to
know there's nothing else you want to do because there's so much rejection. There's so much
uncertainty.
there's you're, you're not ever fully fully in control. Like look how long it took for Sandra. Oh. To get lead roles, you know, in a TV series and win an Emmy.
I mean, and she's one out of God knows how many thousands, tens of thousands. Right. So. It takes incredible dedication and love of the craft. I mean, it really is, is comes down to that as a producer friend of mine says being a producer as a terrible job, but a great life. I mean, I love my life because every day is different and I get to explore all these different subjects and,
everything gets to be related back to the things that I am interested in.
All the projects that I'm involved in. I, I they're, they're so close to. My life, maybe not,
the most sort of concrete,
way, but there issues there, they explore issues that are, that are really important and
interesting to me. So if you don't have that, you know, if you're looking for.
A job. This is not a job. This is a life. This is a life
that that can be very hard on family life. This is the life that
takes you down. Many roads that are unexpected. This is a life that you just have to constantly reaffirm your Your, your belief in yourself because you, you start with nothing.
Like what, what is, what is producing? You start with nothing. It's just an idea.
there's no guarantee it's ever going to see the light of day. So
and, and it's the same as an app for an actor. Like how long does it take, you know, You just, nobody can tell you only, you know, and only you can walk down that . Path for yourself.
just no prescription. It doesn't matter where you went to school. It doesn't matter who, you know, I mean, those factors may, may, influence the journey but they're, they're not the deciding factors. So same with writing, directing, whatever it is. So that's the main thing. and then
the other thing. Say as an Asian Asian-American
person interested in the entertainment industry is it's a much better time now than ever.
I mean, by a thousand fold, because there is a community and I give a lot of critical house, which I was so happy to co-found and now we have an army of volunteers and so many people who came out of the woodwork, who said, I want to be part of this because it's so important to me that not just I, but my children see, see, images of themselves on television or in movies, you know?
And so there was a lot of pent up demand that we were able to capture and, um, we've been able to promote existing works as well as newer works. And, and it's just, it's so gratifying. And, and, and so much of what we do is, is in a group setting. So you really can't do much on your own. And I think now it's easier than ever to find that network of people to connect with.
and I, I feel like Los Angeles is
[00:56:32] Janet: a fantastic place to be right now.
I sometimes wake up and I'm like, I can't believe what's happening. You know, trying to
find a writer. I can't believe it.
[00:56:42] Lucia: life.
[00:56:43] Janet: I can't believe it. And yet I'm so aware then, you know, we've seen what's happened in this past year with how we're, we're still seen by others.
Like what you were citing. We, we either not
seen at
all or seen by others in just the most limited
fashion. So like, okay. We'd have a lot of work to do. We cannot rest on our laurels whatsoever. We've you know, we have to keep, keep, fighting the good fight.
[00:57:07] Lucia: Yeah.
absolutely. Janet, thanks for fighting. The good fight. Thanks for. With your passion and
your long journey and encouraging other people to be part of the community that you founded.
[00:57:17] Janet: Thank you for having me today. It's lovely talking to other people.
[00:57:21] Siyuan: Thank you, Jenna.