On Episode 5, former journalist, Chinese Storytellers co-founder, and program manager at the Associate Press Jin Ding joins us to share their experience as a community builder and an advocate for diversity in journalism. Later, Jin also shares their journey understanding their cultural identity as a Chinese immigrant to America and gender through the lens of both of their cultures.
(1:18) Single's Day in China (11/11)
(2:39) Siyuan shares her experience with the Chinese Storytellers community and her journey to become a journalist
(6:33) Jin shares her own journalism journey and why diversity in journalism is important
(14:16) Jin's experience with the Asian American Journalists Association and her personal experience embracing her identity as a Chinese immigrant and Asian American
(23:00) Why are Chinese Gen Z obsessed with camping and the "lying flat" movement?
(27:25) The creation of Chinese Storytellers as a community for Chinese journalists abroad and how its grown
(36:28) Jin's experience understanding her gender through the lens of Chinese and American culture.
(46:00) Jin's DC area restaurant recommendation! (Find out where it is on our food map below)
NOTES
Asian American Journalists Association
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(This is an automatically generated transcript)
[00:00:00] Welcome to episode five of Bund to Brooklyn. Today, we are going to talk the tinting from the eighties. About her work fighting for inclusion in journalism and her journey, understanding her culture and identity and gender as you moved from China to America. But first it's almost Halloween. Lucia. Are you doing anything?
[00:00:39] Literally, probably nothing. Uh, that's like the most boring answer ever, but we might dress for dress up our dog. We still haven't really figured out what she's going to dress up as, but we'll figure something out for. Yeah, I, I don't have any plans for Halloween actually as well. I think celebrate Halloween in China.
[00:01:01] Yeah. Like this year, especially, it's been really quiet. Like I only see one poster about a second hang stern market is hosting a Halloween party. I didn't that I didn't see any business putting out Halloween promotional materials, but recently what is kind of trending is Taobao China. Biggest shopping platform is hosting its annual single stay festival soon.
[00:01:27] So the presale yesterday that's November 11th. Is that it? Yeah. Quinton's yeah. All right. So it's like day and like the little translation to it is like, Empty rod, like, like, I don't know if there's a word for that speak English and the Tierra. Well, it's like it's Quang Quinn, right? So like Quang is like devoid of stuff, like smooth or like solo.
[00:01:55] And then Quinn is like Quinsy. It's like a stick. And like, the reason why they're calling is like, cause 1111 is just like lots of ones. And like, I guess one is like, kind of like a stick. I mean, I'm sure there's other ways to interpret this. I'm not going to say it, but you know, it's just like so low.
[00:02:15] Right? So. There's one, one person. Yeah. So, so the single stay is the biggest shopping festival in China, and a lot of people would go online to buy discount of stuff. So it's kind of like black Friday? Yes, exactly. Yes. Right. Black Friday. Yeah. Totally.
[00:02:39] Today's guest gen is all about telling stories. She started her career at, in journalism and she founded this, this community called the Chinese storytellers. And you're part of that community. Can you talk a bit about that? Like how did you find out about it? And then how did you hear about. Yeah. So I joined several months ago.
[00:02:59] So at that time I realized every of my Chinese journalist friend have joined this Chinese store. Tell our group, like lay war, talk about working opportunities or freelancing opportunities or other topics around immigration to the U S. Or just even safety, privacy issues being a journalist. So I was really curious and I reached out to one of the members and they sent me the invite link.
[00:03:26] So I've been there and I'm on slack every day for that group. And I have been learning so much about just in general journalism and what kind of issues being a Chinese journalists. Yeah, so I really enjoy this group. Okay, great. I don't think we've ever touched upon this in the podcast, but you, you never talked about why you decided if you come with a journal.
[00:03:48] Yes, it's my childhood dream growing up. I want to become a writer and journalist, but somehow I study econ and business from undergrads and public policy from my grad school. And later I was pretty much in the nonprofit space, so I never actually had a chance to actually write something. But after deciding to leave the U S last year, initially Kobe happened.
[00:04:16] So I was at home doing quarantine, so I didn't have a lot of things to do, but I found out what I would do is I was sitting on my desk and just keep writing. So I realized. Writing is indeed my passion. So I really need to pursue this. The later I look around opportunities in Shanghai and I found this media company radio, and I had been there for over a year, actually, I just left last week and decided to become a freelance journalist.
[00:04:47] They're currently writing for a couple of China focused English. Yeah. And so it sounds like this Chinese storytellers group is really helpful in helping you understand and connect with other journalists that are, that are like you, that's a super exciting to hear a little bit more about how Jen founded the Chinese storytellers group.
[00:05:08] And later on, we talk about her journey of. You know, from China to America and her experiences here, but before that would love to have you all listen to unto Brooklyn. Uh, you can find us anywhere. You listen to podcasts and Spotify and apple and Google for Instagram and Twitter. You can find us at bun to Brooklyn.
[00:05:27] That's B U N D T O B R O K L Y N a bunch of Brooklyn on Instagram and Twitter. And you can also email us, which is at B2B at 1990 Institute dot.
[00:05:51] Um,
[00:05:59] so Jen, welcome to been to Brooklyn. We're so excited to have you here as a guest, you know, obviously right now you work at the associated press, but you've also used to have received the international. Media foundation, uh, grants and awards. You've also been involved in the Asian-American journalist association and you were one of the founders of the Chinese storytellers organization.
[00:06:20] So, super good to have you here. And obviously we have CNR a journalist on our side too, so I'm sure there's lots for us to talk to. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. I think where we could potentially start is a little bit of your background and your journey from China and then moving to the states and then getting into journalism and empowering diversity in journalism.
[00:06:46] Yeah, sure. Um, so. I was a journalist in China reporting on sports about 10 years ago. And I actually left that position to come to the U S and thought I was going to leave it, leave journalism that I wanted to study sports management. And I wanted to actually go back to China to. Work on sports initiatives or managing a sports teams back then, I already had the dream of like a sports as a kind of welfare solutions for a lot of social issues.
[00:07:16] And I really think trying to, as a society that. Uh, lack of those kinds of initiatives. And it really, I wa wanted to do more on that front, but somehow 10 years later, I'm still in journalism. However, I actually never returned to the reporter position. I worked on marketing research. I did just some project management and then ended up in DC where I worked before multiple journalism nonprofits.
[00:07:48] And just this year I returned to newsroom, but right now working for the associated press, but I'm not sure being a reporter here. I oversee some of the APS news partnerships and grants. Yeah. That's quick sum up of where I came from and why I'm here. Awesome. So what kind of sports are you a big fan of? I grew up with soccer and, uh, uh, that was the sport I watched.
[00:08:15] Um, Ron Madrid. However, I have to, I have to admit that I pretty much, haven't really watched a much of sports in the past a couple of years, just because, you know, work really piles up. And also, I kind of felt like my favorite players all retired as the new generation. Now. It's really hard to keep up. Yeah.
[00:08:35] There's absolutely a lot. Our producer, Sean is a big sports junkie. So if you ever want to talk sports with him, he, he he'll oblige. I mean, one thing you sort of touched upon is your role in empowering diversity in journalism. I mean, I think there's some really powerful stats out there. Journalism has been very dominated by white men.
[00:08:56] And so you can just imagine the skew in views from a journalism perspective. If the story is always told from a white male angle, and I know you talked a bit about that in an interview you did with, there's other podcasts called new voices, but we'd love for you to share a bit more about the journey that you had and, and driving diversity in general.
[00:09:22] Yeah, sure. I think I didn't really realize how big the diversity issue. Is ain't journalism until a couple years working for the nonprofit media in DC, where I literally figured out every grant they gave for journalists that you go to China are basically all white men. And in those grants, I had very funny conversations with those journalists, did that, where I found out.
[00:09:52] I don't think they know China at all. At the same time they get, they're getting those thousands of dollars grants to go to China and to report on China. One example would be a journalist who I talked to to a photographer. I talked to two and was planning to go to China, to take photos and document the PM.
[00:10:11] 2.5. Issue with air quality in China. And he picked a very interesting week that are right after the two meetings now play in Beijing. And I was kind of shocked by his schedule. Cause I was like, this is the do notice is the cleanest, the error, like in Beijing, like if you look at the whole year, so quality time and you're a photographer, which means you have to actually see.
[00:10:40] The foggy air. You actually have to see those factories, but you're not getting any off. If you go there during the week off now, way after two meetings. So can you explain what are the two meetings is for? Um, yeah, sure. So basically the Chinese central government put together in those meetings to kind of like a Congress in the U S that they gathered together from all over the country.
[00:11:07] Uh, a week or two invasion every year, usually end of February. And during those meetings, patient usually have very strict or control off of what kind of parse can't get on the street. How many of them can get on the street? And at the same time factories, usually surrounding beach and water close off or reduce emission.
[00:11:27] So the air quality wouldn't be better, especially this was early. Choose Allen 10 era, which, which is like the Peikoff air pollution in Beijing. So the dryness to pick a very interesting time to go and. I quickly realized that he has no idea like the situation on the ground. And also I felt a very nervous of how we selected those guarantees.
[00:11:53] And that's the time I really felt very frustrated at the same time, myself as a young Asian woman in journalism words, not treated. Equally or treat us seriously when I have different opinions, the leadership would just brush it off and says, oh no, like this journalist, we trust him. He knows what he's doing.
[00:12:15] You know, he won a lot of big prizes. That's the time I really felt there needs to be some changes, but to be honest, I didn't know how to do it. So I remember that year, I went to a Asian-American journalists associations conference. And my thought was, you know, I've never been there. I want to just go and to see what you are talking about.
[00:12:37] And maybe I can meet some journalists that can be future grantees of my organization. Being there was revolutionary for me. I learned a lot of things from my peers, from all those journalists, working in different kinds of newsrooms, many of them have shared their strategy of how to manage up, how to manage Don at the same time, how to push doers and changes in your optimization.
[00:13:03] So I came back from that conference. I felt if I'm not doing it, nobody's going to do it. I just better just roll up my sleeve. And if this is a battle, I'm here to stay. Cause also funny. I need my visa sponsorship, so I'm not going to leave a short term. Many of my peers in the organization, junior staff have left the organization because they.
[00:13:26] Felt frustrated with the management or they felt difficult to work with this kind of white dominant environment. But I knew I couldn't leave because I have this visa sponsorship, visa handcuffs. Yes. So I can't leave. So I just thought, well, Yeah, I get out of better just to change it. Otherwise, I'm going to stuck here and I'll face this every single day.
[00:13:50] So I really got into diversity journals. I mean, that way it was not a nice starch. And I think now I learned a lot more. I do know how to talk about. And I figured it out, a lot of different strategies to get to what I want, but it's a learning progress. And I think a lot of other people are in the same boat with me.
[00:14:11] We're still paddling. We're still trying to figure out what. That's really impressive. So you mentioned AAJA Asian American, Asian Americans journalist association. So right now you are the VP of finance there. Can you tell us a bit about your workfare? Yeah, sure. Um, so I was a lecture to the board last year, which my officials officers started being on the board beginning of this year.
[00:14:37] The title says we'd be all financed, which means I'm. I am overseeing financing and the fundraising at the Aja at the same time I volunteered last year. And this year as the convention, co-chair. Potentially it's still gonna volunteer next year, hopefully to get a few more coaches to work with me to foster the next generation of HR leaders, Asia is 40 years.
[00:15:02] This year. We just celebrated our 40th anniversary during the commission, and it will have more celebrations and of the year. It's an organization that it has transformed a lot of people's life and transformed how API. Uh, community are being covered in journalists on many of pioneers, AJS match have told him you, this is probably the most important legacy in journalism.
[00:15:32] I hope we honor that. And at the same time, knowing there's another 40 years ahead of us and we need to build a better foundation for every API, John, especially shine in missing. Do you feel like the coverage around Asian-Americans has have changed through the years that you've been in America? I'd be kind of curious if you, prior to coming to the states, how you thought about America and then coming to the states and, and becoming a member of society and being a journalist in this society.
[00:16:06] And then looking back. I don't know if you associate yourself. Um, we didn't really get a chance to talk a bit about your identity, but I don't know if you associate yourself with being Asian American, like how you sort of look back and see if there's differences and in the way that you either think about how you storytelling or your views, or the way that you think about Asian Americans versus like Chinese people.
[00:16:28] Yeah. I started to learn how to be a minority in the. Because I was ha I'm Han Chinese, which is a super majority of China coming to the U S in the first few years. I think I just didn't know how to behave myself. And of course, there's. Kind of feeding off like a why, if you are not hearing me. And at the same time, knowing I have a lot of disadvantages in my career and in job seeking in my life as minority in society, finally adopted to that at the same time.
[00:17:05] relearning. About empowering myself, even though I'm a minority was quite a journey. I definitely did not identify myself as Asian-American. I wouldn't even say probably until a couple years ago, I fell, always felt like. And outsider because I'm a visa. It's always all stable. My life is always on stable.
[00:17:27] There's never a moment. I felt like there was a future for me, that us every single year, when I need to renew every single year, when I need to book my appointment with embassy, it's a journey of thinking, oh, I still don't know. Don't belong in the American society and all the barriers that as an immigrant to that we need to hop through.
[00:17:50] It's a constant and a reminder that you don't belong here. I think finally, to a point too, that I, at one moment I felt okay. Like I'm not gonna let other people to allow me to become American in looking back and just think about majority of my adult life have spent in this country. It's really part of my identity now because.
[00:18:12] When I go back to China, I have this reverse culture shock sometimes. And I almost felt at one point, I felt ashamed about it because I grew up here and this is my people, and this is my city. How could I not fitting right away? How could I feel like, oh, this is strange, like walking in the Metro or like, just to stay today stuff I felt sometime I felt strange when I'm in my hometown.
[00:18:38] Um, at that time I realized, okay, I did spend 10 years in the U S. At that point, I should probably allow myself or just let myself be who I am. And I also got you a place that I think there is no way to separate how much percentage of me is Chinese. How much percentage of me as Asia American? It's the one unit.
[00:19:03] This is me and within my identity, can you really tell. Am I today, 50% Chinese or tomorrow 60% Chinese that's is just a, not a formula formula that I can work with to really know that I am an Asian American now. And I'm also Chinese. I can be both. I don't need you to pick one or on. Right. I feel you own the visa and the reverse culture shock front.
[00:19:30] So I was in the U S iOS first on student visa and later working visa. I already have this constant reminder reminder from outside. Like I didn't belong to America because my visa can be canceled or terminated. And also on the culture shock after spent a few years in the U S and I came back last year.
[00:19:51] To Shanghai. Like sometimes a lot of people would say, oh, so you spend so many time, so many years in America. Did you identify yourself more as American Chinese American or Chinese? But I think of a combination of a lot of identities in myself and. Um, like I cannot say 20% Chinese or 20% of Americans still.
[00:20:16] So also I have narrow questions. So after you have been in America, like how has your view on America has changed and what kind of news sources did you have when you in China to know about America? Yeah. So when I first came to the U S I went to a very small town called Courtland in upstate New York.
[00:20:39] Many people don't even know where that is. It's in between Ithaca and Syracuse is a very, old industrial town that the industry has left. It's a beautiful time, but at the same time, just there's 9 97, 90 8% of people are white. So that was kind of a crazy culture shock. Um, in some sense, at the same time you can say, this is pretty much how mass media has been porting America, which is majority white.
[00:21:10] So. Like learn America in a very hard way. That first two years there isn't many Chinese around me. Uh it's um, always constantly a reminder that in myself is a super minority of people said a lot of racist things to me in the past. But at the same time, every time, just like how I explain to Americans what China is.
[00:21:32] I would say China is very complex, but because it's really big. They're all sorts of people there. Same as America. It's very big. All sorts of people live here. I still think, I don't understand America in many ways. And there are a lot of nuances, even though right now, people are like, oh, there's a Biden's America.
[00:21:55] There's a Trump's America. There's a rest days. There's blue states. But at the same time, if you look at individual people, there are so many nuances in their stories and in their views, I. Even though I've been here for 10 years. I still try to keep an open mind. And I actually, I felt like journalism have really opened in my views of America because I'm reading different kinds of stories and re reading stories about people's life.
[00:22:22] I guess he struggles in any site. And there's definitely not only to sizing America, same as when people talk about China. So I feel like it's the 10 years in the U S it really opened. My view is off in the world. And knowing that I still don't understand Americas. I, I definitely don't understand China.
[00:22:44] That's what I tell everybody, even though I know a lot of my American friends think I'm a China expert. I was like, no, I don't know anything about China. If you ask me something about China that is nodding the news, I probably have never heard about it. I feel that like recently I have this feeling that.
[00:23:06] Really connected to the Chinese community or Chinese gen Z. So recently I'd be going to this 7 0 6 community event in Shanghai. So where a lot of young people, no matter from university or young professional, where they gather and watch a movie together or has happy hours afterwards. So I'm like learning about China every day as well.
[00:23:28] Well, hold on, before you kind of jumped there, can you tell us what's hot, what's hot for youngsters. Like, I don't even know what's hot for youngsters in America. Like I think I used on fleek the other day and I don't even know if that's in anymore. Oh, what's hot here. It's great. Game is hearts and being Netflix is blocked in China, but, but a lot of people actually are talking about on a weight boy, which is quite surprisingly.
[00:23:54] So the APN game in China is, is, is hot. I'm not sure where did they actually watch the show, but very surprisingly learn, learn English just through watching different kinds of shows. None of them were like legally. Uh, adopted you're Chinese, right? Like we all watched a friends. We all watched big bang theory.
[00:24:17] Uh, we all watched all those American shows. I remember like CSI was by begging for a while for them. Right. Oh my God. I'm old. I remember that school. I have ways to find it and then watch it for sure. But yeah, like I think generations, and anything outside of my generation, I don't understand, like in either us or you can see and to educate us, like what's, what's, what's cool.
[00:24:46] What's cool for kids these days, this days, a lot of kids are going camping. Some of them are like Glen things I would say, or fishing 1880s. God, no, I mean, Lagging behind, but still not too late. And also a lot of young people, uh, recently, uh, were into fishing, which is very surprising. I actually, I could understand that's very like pumping very kind of.
[00:25:17] So, so my husband was trying to explain this concept to me and, you know, he was trying to like, he's like, there's this new thing in China where it's like, Tom Pinkville Egypt. Right. Or like the philosophy of lying down. And it's like, people who just don't want to do anything. And like, apparently so in Canto, there's this term called, Hey, and it's basically just lying there, like mush and do nothing.
[00:25:41] It's like, Hey, so like, can somebody. Here, explain to me how this happened and why there's like kids who I don't know, just don't want to do anything. So I think it has to do with China's over time work culture. So there's a phrase called nine ice six, which means working from nine to 9:00 PM to 9:00 PM, six days a week.
[00:26:08] So a lot of young Chinese workers are overwhelmed by their work. So they had been finding ways to kind of escape. Daily realities and find, find refugee on other ways. So Yeti or top in illness. Well, I think it's just because of population and the competition and in China. So young people who are just tired, we just don't want to do any of those things like working really hard and until you're what, 60 years old.
[00:26:42] And then you can retire. That's not the Treme style flight. We want to enjoy the moment and we want to just chill. I think being challenged, right? Yeah. Especially right now there's so much societal pressures. Like, uh, you need to get married at a young age, like. Three kids. Now, now they have free trial policies and no one wants to have a case.
[00:27:08] No one wants to get married or have kids, but it's just so much pressure from outside and young people like they're done. They just give up. Yeah. No matter what, what do you do? You're not going to be the best one anyways. So why. Right. Yeah. So, so T you were well in the founding members of this group, Chinese storytellers.
[00:27:31] I'm also one of the members. I really like this organization. Like a lot of members are very active on slack. They are talking about. Different topics concerning Chinese journalist, men who are merely reporting English and some were talk about immigration, some other would talk about their articles. So can you tell us a little bit about your work there?
[00:27:56] Yeah, sure. So in 2019 in March, A group of Chinese woman journalists, mostly on the Eastern coast of America started this community called Chinese storytellers. We're not an organization because there's literally no organizational structures. They're also just a community and a community of volunteers.
[00:28:17] What do we do basically is gather a group of. People like us, we face exactly the same problems issues in our career and our life. And we thought maybe we would just figure those things out by teaching each other, how to. How you did to one or another, what do we database? I mean, we had a WhatsApp group and we thought it would just make a Google form and to see who wants to join us.
[00:28:42] So we send out a Google form through friends, word of mouth, literally, and we don't know how we ended up with probably 80 to a hundred responses right away with. And we were shocked by it. We were like, wow, there's really a market out there that people really need this. We were really inspired by journalists off color slack group.
[00:29:05] So we thought let's just to start a slack group is free. It's a place that we can just chat with each other and we'll start a newsletter to talk about issues that we all feel passionate about. A lot of issues are reporting on China and the Western stereotypes of China. Of Chinese in journalism at the same time, knowing that maybe we can stir up the pods in a little bit.
[00:29:31] It should, we can make sure that people hear us. Um, each one of us is a very small voice, but we thought, you know, if we combine all of us together, maybe we can make something really good. So we starting now. The community grow really significantly in the past a couple of years right now, our newsletter in the past, it was bi-weekly.
[00:29:51] Now we reduced to the amount of new starters we send, because we really want to focus on the community building piece for Chinese. Sorry. In the beginning, we were thinking this group will only be Chinese who actually grew up in China and who will have extensive China experience and then work for a Western media or a work for English media.
[00:30:13] Now we expended that category a lot more. We were very open as long as a person who I will identify themselves as Chinese storytellers, they can join, uh, that don't need to be journalist. There are documentary films. There are photographers. All sorts of people are in our group. And I'm glad right now we see a lot of grossing, the community.
[00:30:37] We have members in almost every. English and media publication right now, which is something I, I couldn't, I, I wouldn't say I wouldn't even dare to dream. Like two years ago when we founded this, we have people who are in management positions. We also have people who are mid career and the breaking stories of winning awards.
[00:31:00] We have motivations. The nominated and a wound Pulitzer prize this year, we have drawn us a one on a online, a new associations journalism award this year. Right now I'm like, literally, anytime there's a big award dropping, I'm clicking on it and reading by-lines to make sure there are some Chinese journalists being mentioned in it and it will tweet about it.
[00:31:22] We'll share for them. So, yeah, it's a, it's a community that is really growing and I feel very positive about it. And I know that we all benefit from talking to each other and trying to navigate those career challenges. So I was wondering with, with the growing of this Chinese star terror communities, how did you think that would contribute to the international reporting on China?
[00:31:49] Some of our members are their beat is China and some of them are not, which is just naturally, I think every journalist should have give, be given the opportunity to report on anything they're interested in for those who are reporting on China. I do think the job is not easy for sure. Especially if you are.
[00:32:07] Many of our members now face harassment to face security challenges, face a lot of things that if they're not, if they're not Chinese, they would not face, but at the same time, they're so crucial for the world to understand. China, they bring in their balanced views and they really bring in their knowledge about those society background and a history and the, and just as a better ability to understand the nuances behind a news event that is really important.
[00:32:39] And many of them actually. And I know for the fact that they, in their newsrooms, they are constantly going to their editors and going to their colleagues to saying there's something wrong with the reporting. Why we should not use this word to why we can't describe this, placing this way, how to make sure that when we report on China, we don't bring in this existing ideology of Chinese.
[00:33:02] Our watch, like China is what to making sure that. Put a separation between politics and, and people. I think that's very important at the end of the day. I think the stories that are really going to make a big impact are the stories, uh, that are factor based and also care about people on both sides. I think that's so important in that the fact that you've created this community of journalists that not only in their own right, are spectacular and have won a ton of different awards and you know, are good at what they do.
[00:33:39] But at the same time are able to pinpoint areas where I think it could create a lot of miscommunication between us and China and like, In this period of time where I think tensions are rising. And I think both countries are starting to close themselves off to each other, like less and less commerce are happening between the two countries.
[00:34:01] Entertainment is getting kind of closed off. It's just so important to be able to continue to have dialogue. And to have people who are kind of boots on the ground who really understand both countries to be able to come into the middle and build bridges where there needs to be bridges. So I think that's super important.
[00:34:21] Yeah. I just also want to mention, you know, it's not like we have this community, everyone agree with each other. Like there are a lot of issues. We are. With each other, there are also people throwing each other questions, right? Like, uh, how to, how to best have translate a phrase that is accurate at the same time, reflect the complexity behind it.
[00:34:43] As phrases is often when we do some translation for interviews, a lot of you mentioned are lost in translation or trying to making sure that those things do exist as in the final product at the same time. We have journalists who work for various media. I'm a firm believer that we should not put boundaries just because this person worked for what kind of media and saying, oh, they should have belonged to tiny start headers or not.
[00:35:12] If you are a journalist, if you're a story holler, you can work in any kind of media and still tell good stories or trying to find those nuances in between. And also just the, having a open space for people to talk with each other, to share what they've learned from each other at the same time, knowing that.
[00:35:33] The, when there is an issue, we will be here for them and we will be here to support them, to help them navigate those complex. The situations in newsrooms is quite important. We also have a lot of freelancers and sharing those contacts with each other and even help each other to Butte, to their portfolio and finding reporting partners, winning the group.
[00:35:56] It's really a remarkable. I think that is why I'm now really focused on the community building Bart. That's absolutely awesome. I think one thing you talked about in this entire conversation around building community around learning how to be. Part of the community as like a Asian-American and like wrestling with your identity, where you belong, whether it's China, whether it's the U S the, the concept of not putting boundaries around other people.
[00:36:28] Like, I feel like I wanted to talk a little bit about yourself where you've come out as non-binary in terms of gender. And I guess just wondering. Any of those kind of realizations coming to America and having to grapple with your identity as being Chinese and American has also made you think about gender and in a, in a certain way where, you know, you're not putting boundaries around yourself.
[00:36:54] Yeah. I actually identify as a woman and a nonbinary. And I know this concept before a lot of Chinese speakers probably would be very, um, confusing. I think Jennifer ready. It wasn't a thing when I grew up in China and probably wasn't a thing that even the American society on till recently, I struggled with it, of how I identify.
[00:37:16] For probably forever when I was in China, especially when I was a teenager, when I was in college, knowing that I don't really identify as the a hundred percent of woman, but at the same time, there is an there wasn't a really good word to describe why I am being Chinese, at least that back then over 10 years ago.
[00:37:38] So. Interesting to later come to the U S and then learn a lot more about gender concepts and the sexuality concepts in China. I always felt like, is there a neutral gender, but the neutral gender always were being seen as woman who. I don't want to be a woman or like a woman look like a boy. There's, there's a lot of stigma around it.
[00:38:04] And I didn't feel comfortable with, to put that a word on myself because I didn't want to associate myself with that stigma. But then later come to the U S and really learn about what is non binary and what is gender fluidity, knowing that. I could be both or there is not either, or was really eyeopening for me.
[00:38:25] And I, I felt like even until recent years, I have not fully accepted or fully understood in myself, but right now I think I'm. That I'm women and non binary. I feel comfortable with why I am at the same time, knowing that I want to be there as you know, examples for other people who identify the same as me last week, I actually just did a session within associated press about transgender and nonbinary.
[00:38:56] And with few other transgender journalists, then also reporters who constantly reporting on LGBTQ issues. I that's the time I actually realized that I actually have not had that conversation with my parents about my gender identity. I still haven't learned how to plan everything fully in Chinese. I don't even know if I can explain everything.
[00:39:22] Even a word, non binary does his coffee arguments, but also what does that mean? Like
[00:39:36] Yes. Yeah, it sounds very robotic. Right. And I, I didn't know how, I still don't know how to talk with my parents about it. So during that session, I suddenly realized I'm literally kind of coming out from closet to the entire AP, which has like probably 2000 people working here and joining us all around the world on a wash this at the same time, I have not had that conversation with my parents.
[00:40:03] It's co it's difficult. And I have to tell my partner one time that I identify as a woman, non binary, and he got really confused. Like, so what does that mean for our relationship? I was like,
[00:40:20] the relationship we have, but at the same time, I think it just, it going to be a continuing being my struggle. Probably in the next 10 years to figure out how to tell this to my parents, or I almost feel like if my parents just see me as me, why do I need to explain to them who I am? Because they already know who I am.
[00:40:41] Right. Like, what is you is so important for them to know my gender identity, if they just think, oh, I am there. So I'm still in this difficult period off, like, you're trying to figure out how to approach this with my family in China. At the same time, I'm learning everything in the U S in English and they're holding my parents would also read something like that in Chinese.
[00:41:09] Maybe they'll just click. They want to be like, oh, that's my kid. They would read the article. I hope someone, maybe you should write that article. Have you seen this lately? Yeah. And then my, my, my mom would be like, oh, that's why she never wanted to wear a dress in college. And at one point my mom really thought I was lesbian because.
[00:41:33] Didn't like to wear dress in college. I, every single day wear jeans, this is who I am. And especially during that period of time, I found it like very conflict as a teenager, and I didn't know what to do with it. So my resolution is okay, I'm going to wear jeans every day, because that was your solution.
[00:41:54] That's my solution. And so, so my, my mom thought I was lesbian and she was afraid of asking. Until one day she figured out I have a boyfriend, which I was trying to hide it from her and cause also, or was she like solid yet? Like early and probably found a really happy about it. She was like, oh my God, my daughter is not.
[00:42:19] Uh, lesbian, but also I think that's pretty homophobic, which I'm still trying to figure that out. It was my parents off like a racism and a homophobic. Those things are very important to me because I just, from when you were like believing inclusion at the same time, I want. I w I spent several years in my life work on inclusion in journalism, and I'm still working on inclusion in the journalism, but I have to educate them about those things.
[00:42:48] And often we don't agree with each other and that just caused a lot of family drama. Yeah. I agree. There's a lack of education on LGBTQ issues in China. Like growing up, I. I had no idea what it is about until I, I read more books and receive more information online. And also I think there's a generation gap.
[00:43:14] Like my parents' generation that not much open-minded on this issue, but I can see the GENCO generation. They are more embracing this concept and they are comfortable talking about it recently. Yes. I think if we have more examples in the society, They will be more accepted even until now. They probably see, you know, they, they rarely have matched to anyone who is our LGBTQ in their personal life.
[00:43:43] So they have this image in their head thinking that's who they are. I don't think my mom had ever has ever met anyone who is non binary or total her they're non binary. So if I tell them I'll be the first person and I'm not ready to have that combination with. Yeah. Yeah. There's also a saying like, as long as your kid is not LGBTQ, they are fine.
[00:44:08] Like if other kids are LGBT community, they will be like, okay, like good for them or something like that. But if it happens to them themselves, they will be like confused. Yeah. So I really wish there was more education on that. That reminds me of a Margaret Cho joke. Her mom told her she's like, there's so many gay people out there.
[00:44:28] So many gay people.
[00:44:32] And this reminds me of first a year when I was thinking the U S that my landlord actually asked me about it because before I lived there, there was a Chinese teacher lived in the same room where I moved into. And the Chinese teacher previously told. My landlord. There's no gate in Beijing. There's no gate in China.
[00:44:54] And I w I w when I heard about it, I was of shocked. I was like, yeah, where is this?
[00:45:07] everybody all went to Shanghai, right? Yeah.
[00:45:14] And, and it was funny, cause my landlord wasn't warning me that she has a friend coming over tonight and she kind of politely said, oh, my friend is gay. And I was like, okay. So, so what, and then she had this like dragging me into this conversation that was trying to really have LGBTQ people. I was like, of course.
[00:45:37] It's a country with people guys. There's a lot of people, a lot of divers. Yeah. Oh, this has been fun. And this is Jen. Thank you for sharing, you know, your work in diversity inclusion. Thank you for sharing your background and like sharing some more insights into China and to. You're working reporting.
[00:46:00] We're doing this thing where we're trying to wrap up our conversations with maybe some fun little tidbits. And so we're asking our guests, if they could share a favorite restaurant recommendation at the end of the podcast, and then we'll map your restaurant to a map that we can share to the audio. Oh, yeah.
[00:46:19] So I really love Rieger food and I'm really lucky to live in DC area. DC has a lot of where your people live around, you know, in both Marin and in Virginia. So I've been loving this restaurant and called it art Kings E R K I N S they have. Really good propensity, a big pantry, and they also have really good a kebab, but y'all are trying.
[00:46:46] So you're making me hungry. It's also, my friends from shin down also said, this place is solid too. So I'm going to recommend this to everybody. If you're in DC area, they have several locations come to each or it can. It's amazing. I want to go. That will be my pit stop next time. Yeah. Well, we'll call you up.
[00:47:12] All right. I think that's done. Thank you so much. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. .